Dimitris Itoudis was one of the most notable guests at the League SuperCup, which took place in mid-September in Moscow. During his visit, the former CSKA head coach gave a great interview.
Dimitris, welcome back to Moscow! We prepared for your arrival, we wanted to please you, and we stole the Euroleague Cup especially for you! It’s quite heavy, by the way. Admit it, did you have to go to the gym in 2019 before you won the trophy to raise it above your head?
After that win, I felt like a superhero and at some point I realized that I was holding that heavy trophy with one hand! I don’t know how I did it. And the superheroes were all the guys on our team! 2019, by the way, was our golden year. It’s even written in the CSKA 100 anniversary book about it. Those were very memorable moments. The way our team made it to the Final Four, the way we made it to the Euroleague Finals, the way we took the title – it was all worth it, all the hard work from preseason on. Thanks for the surprise, those are cool memories, but life goes on.
And that’s the truth. I would like to ask, what did you do first of all, having returned to Moscow? Who did you meet? Where did you go? Maybe you still have close friends here?
Thank you for your question, because it will allow me to thank Sergey Kushchenko, who invited us here. I am very proud to represent the Euroleague Coaches Union in Moscow, being its head. I gladly accepted the invitation of the VTB United League, Mr. Kushchenko, Ilona Korstin. And of course, when I came here, the first thing I did was see my friends. In the evening I met with Andrey Vatutin, Natalia Furaeva, Andreas Pistiolis, who used to be my assistant.
We worked together for 18 years. I’m very proud to see him at the head of the team, they have a very serious roster with great chemistry. CSKA had some tough moments last season, but Andreas stood and was able to bring back the Belov Cup. I was proud to watch the games, the new coach holds the brand!
So I saw a lot of friends. Moscow is a beautiful city, which I like very much. It can’t be otherwise, because my family and I spent 8 years here and we were supposed to stay for 2 more years, but circumstances forced us to change our plans.
You mentioned Sergey Kushchenko and Andrey Vatutin, these are your friends from the world of basketball. But I was referring to friends outside of sport. Maybe you have some in Moscow?
I do. I hope I have time to see them all. I’m meeting a friend who owns a restaurant here, and I’ve already crossed paths with my former driver, with whom we are also good friends now. Which is not surprising, since I’ve spent 8 years here.
It’s great that you keep those ties to our city. I’m glad to hear that. Obviously, this is not your first and not your last visit to Moscow, but this time you came here for the first time not as a current coach. How do you feel in this regard?
Well. I still feel like a coach. Yes, at the moment I have no one to coach, but I still feel like a coach. How do I feel? Let’s say that I have a certain task here, I have already held several successful meetings. We have discussed a lot of things, including new teams.
Recently I talked to representatives of Dubai, who shared their vision and ideas on creating a basketball team. There, by the way, a program has been running there for ten years, involving more than 6,000 children. There are not many clubs in Europe that can boast so many young players involved in their system. This is one of my side projects. Coaches are interested in expanding the league.
We want more teams, more ideas. Dubai is one of them. I also got acquainted with the project of Hapoel Tel Aviv, which has a new owner Ofer Jannai. And he is ready to invest money in the team. As I said, we are interested in having more teams in the league, because it means more games, more jobs for players, coaches, journalists, general managers, physiotherapists, doctors and so on.
I guess it’s a subjective view, but I think basketball is the most entertaining sport. And there are plenty of them in the world. Basketball is about split-second decision-making. And it’s all about interacting with your partners and reacting to your opponent’s moves. That’s what makes basketball so exciting. But it continues to be underrated in our country. The value of the league and its potential is what we need to talk about as much as possible.
I like the way you talk about basketball not from a coach’s perspective, but from the perspective of a manager who knows how the world of sport works. So I have a question: do you miss coaching at all? Or are you already looking in a slightly different direction?
You never know where life will take you. I like coaching, I like watching the club grow and develop: when you build a team from scratch, recruit players and then watch them develop.
This trophy is a reminder of what the club, myself and all my assistants can be proud of. In 8 years, 22 different CSKA players became Euroleague champions for the first time. That’s saying something. In 8 years, we’ve essentially changed 3 generations of players, and the team has continued to reach the Final Four and fight for the title. Obviously, it’s impossible to win every year in our environment, but the fact that year after year we’ve made the Final Four is incredibly gratifying.
And now, as I think, the league has grown to the point of thinking about expansion. We can confidently say that the Euroleague is the best league on the continent. Full arenas all over Europe are proof of that. Take the example of CSKA and Moscow, for example. When I arrived here in 2014, the average attendance at our games was 2,500. When I left Russia, the average attendance was closer to 9,000. On the one hand, this shows the incredible work of the club’s marketing department, but on the other hand, the players also had a hand in it with their results, attracting fans to the stands. The way people reason: oh, CSKA is winning, let’s go watch the game, buy a ticket or at least watch the game on TV, buy and read about the game in the newspaper. All this creates interest. But it is still not high enough. And we have a task to increase this interest, because our entire ecosystem needs to evolve and grow.
You said you met Andreas Pistiolis, with whom you worked for 18 years.
Yes, 18 years. First Panathinaikos, then Banvit, and then CSKA.
That’s an incredibly long time! Last year during our interview I asked you about your relationship with Zeljko Obradovic and how much he influenced you. And this year I want to ask you about how proud you are of Andreas?
Incredibly proud! The way he is leading the team now is a consequence of the experience he has gained. Andreas has been ready to be a head coach for a long time.
In March 2022, when players started to leave us, Andreas asked me to let him go to Galatasaray, who offered him to head coaching. I gave the go-ahead, and Andrey Vatutin did too. And now I’m proud to see him leading CSKA and doing a great job. The team has great chemistry.
I hope Russian teams will return to the Euroleague soon. After all, sports unite. And we were just talking about friendship. That’s what sports does. Friendship has no boundaries. You can have friends in China, Australia, Europe, Asia, anywhere. Because you work in sports.
I was hoping this would happen in 2024, during the Olympic year. After all, the Olympics is about peace, it’s about sport, it’s about interacting with other people. But let’s remain optimistic and hope that soon Russian teams – not just basketball teams – will return to the European stage.
Andreas Pistiolis brought CSKA back the championship in the domestic arena. When he first took over the team, did he call you asking for advice?
Actually, it was me who called him first. I wanted to congratulate him. It was a great decision for everybody, he did a great job. He doesn’t need anyone’s advice anymore. Andreas is going his own way. I was at the team’s training session before the first match against Loko and I saw that he carried over a lot of things from our old system. But this is his path and so far he is successfully following it. The chemistry is fine, the leadership qualities of the players are fine. We can only hope that the team will have an injury-free season, which is also very important.
This is what leads to the stability that every team longs for. Stability and consistency in how the team progresses and evolves from game to game. Because, if I’m not mistaken, there will now be four rounds in the VTB League season, which means there will be even more games.
Dimitris, you are the winningest coach in the VTB United League histore. By a wide margin. But you didn’t leave CSKA on a happy note, lost to Zenit in the Finals. How do you feel about that? Do you have desire to come back and take revenge?
I don’t feel like the most winning coach. It is quite normal to lose sometimes. Like the fact that not everything in the world belongs to you, you have to achieve it.
Now let’s dig deeper into this thought in the context of my final year at CSKA. In March 2022, we essentially had to rebuild the team. Shengelia and Grigonis left, followed by Daniel Hackett, and then Johannes Voigtmann. And now you have so many systemically important players leaving and you have to put a team in play in March. We had a very competitive series with Zenit. Let me remind you, there were 7 games in that series, and Alexey Shved gets injured in Game 7. Imagine this: in March you reassemble the team, April essentially turns into the second preseason. And yes, Zenit was stronger in the series, we lost. And after all this time, CSKA with Andreas brought the title back to Moscow. And that’s a great success.
Do I regret that result? No, I’m rather grateful for the moments we experienced. Sometimes in life you have to accept the fact that not everything will work out in your favor, the way you wanted, expected or imagined. And that you just have to accept it and say to yourself, “Okay, I fell. But I’d rather fall forward than backwards.” I’m going to fall, but I’m going to get back up. And I’ll do it over and over again, for as long as it takes. That works not only in sports, in the coaching profession, but also in regular life. There are a lot of things that can disappoint you: friends, parents, siblings. But that’s life, it can be like that.
That’s how I see it. Life gives us so many opportunities to grow, so many lessons to learn. All these difficulties are nothing more than a chance to become a better person. A better professional, person, father, husband, boyfriend, friend and so on.
What deeply meaningful words! We’re talking to you during the VTB United League SuperCup. You won the tournament with CSKA 3 years ago. What do you think of its level? How important is it for the League? Is it developing?
Thank you for this question. CSKA was indeed the first winner of the SuperCup in its current format. Unfortunately, I didn’t dedicate that win to the most joyous occasion – to the memory of Dusan Ivkovic, who had passed away shortly before. I heard about the idea of holding this tournament in Serbia in his honor. After all, Dusan made a great contribution to the history of CSKA, he was a pioneer, initiated the club’s transition to a new, more professional level. He helped the team acquire a new mentality, a new approach to international games. And this is very important. He organized the structure and work of all mechanisms of the club. We also used his baggage and tried to fine-tune this system even more.
Now about the SuperCup. Last year I was here as the head coach of one of the participating teams Fenerbahce. This year they invited Besiktas and Crvena Zvezda. Foreign teams are invited to show the basketball world that the level of Russian basketball is still high. And that the management of CSKA and other teams are keeping the bar at the maximum. The tournament is well organized and even international players want to come and play here. In the future I hope to be here again as a head coach, and if not, just as a guest.
You have seen the games of the tournament. Based on those observations, who will be the favorites for the new VTB League season?
As for the favorites, I think CSKA, Zenit and UNICS are the first to claim that role. Of course, there are other teams on the radar, like Uralmash. Or last season Enisey. By the way, it will be interesting to watch them in the current season. Of course, Loko will also be interesting to watch. They have a lot of youth and a new coach-president, as always.
CSKA has a very good chemistry, the team managed to keep the core. Plus, they have a great reinforcement in Aleksa Avramovic. And that’s important too, because he probably had other options, but chose Moscow and CSKA. This is also a kind of signal that the level of local basketball has not decreased. Maybe at first Russian clubs could play international games in neutral arenas. CSKA is still among the Euroleague shareholders, so why not return to the Euroleague at least on those terms.
Back to the question of the VTB League season favorites, I think CSKA, Zenit and UNICS will be the favorites. Put them in any order. In any case, it’s too early for accurate predictions. But I liked the way UNICS played against Besiktas, their ball movement and defense. Zenit looked good yesterday. By the way, I discussed not only with Andreas Pistiolis, but also with Xavi Pascual how their preseason went, Zenit has more newcomers, so it may take longer to get the processes wirk. But once again, I think these 3 teams will be the main favorites. I can’t single out anyone in particular. Of course, I’m rooting for CSKA, but as a professional, I say that 3 clubs will claim for win.
I really wanted to talk to you about Aleksa Avramovic. The Olympics showed that he’s a real superstar. Aren’t you jealous of Pistiolis? That he, and not you, will get to work with such a player?
No, no. I’m not jealous in any way. The only feeling I have about Andreas is pride. I’ve coached a lot of great players since 1991. And let me correct you a little bit, but it’s like you’re going a little overboard calling Aleksa a superstar. No argument, he’s a good young player who has experience in big tournaments, but he’s still a long way from that status.
And let me ask you, what does “superstar” even mean? How is it defined? What does a player have to do to be considered a superstar? The one who beats everyone by himself? Or the one who is recognized on the streets and autographs autographs endlessly?
In my opinion, a superstar is a player who gives his best at every practice, who is willing to listen to the coach’s instructions, who can listen to criticism, who can develop in the system and get better. Alexa made his choice, a very good choice. He is a great fit for CSKA. He will have opportunity and time to prove that he deserves even more. And I really like this move – very bold and important from a career standpoint.
Speaking of superstars. I wanted to ask you about Giannis Antetokounmpo. What’s it like coaching a star of that caliber?
It was great. Coaching him was easy. I like coaching players who love what they do.
How does he take criticism, listen to his coach? Does he fit your description of a superstar?
Completely fits, on all counts. When I listed all these points, I had Giannis in mind. Because both he and other great players have already left their mark on history. They are role models and benchmarks for others. These players spend long hours in the gym, shed liters of blood, sweat and tears to become who they are. Giannis is one of the most self-critical players. He has the following attitude towards training: the less I train, the worse I will perform in the game. That is, despite your status, you keep worrying that you won’t be good enough. Just at some point it turns into professionalism, a clear pattern that you have to follow to succeed. Yannis is very professional about everything: nutrition, rest, the specialists he surrounds himself with. Such a player is easy to coach, first of all because he loves what he does.
And at this Olympics we also saw LeBron. He’s 40 years old, and he still gives so much on the court and leads his teammates so well. And yes, Steph Curry, Kevin Durant, Joel Embiid were good, but still, LeBron is the player who led Team USA to gold. With all due respect to the work of Steve Kerr and his coaching staff.
I remember the game against him in Miami in 2012, when I went to work for Detroit for a year. If I’m not mistaken, he had just won the NBA, the Olympics, a bunch of individual awards, and even in that status, in the friendly game against Detroit, he gave his best, led his teammates and defended. And then I thought: what kind of problems can there be in working with such an elite player? After all the wins, to show such desire at practice is worth a lot. You can call such athletes superstars. They have left a mark in the history of basketball. And continue to honor the game that gave them everything. Not only fame and money, but also the opportunity to infect young guys with love for basketball. And we should be very grateful to such athletes who popularize basketball with their play. So coaches can only dream of such players, they set the right example for the rest of us.
I’m impressed with players of LeBron’s caliber, too. You’ve won everything you’ve ever won. Where does he get the motivation to keep practicing, keep playing defense, keep leading? I guess that’s what makes superstars different, isn’t it?
I had a similar conversation with a very famous actor. Now he is already making movies himself, he has his own theater, production. In general, everything he does. And once during a radio broadcast he asked me: “You have won so many things. Where do you get your motivation from?” In response, I listed the movies and TV series he has made and asked him why he keeps making them. The same could be asked of you. Why do you keep doing what you do? Because you enjoy it, you want to keep growing and evolving. You get up in the morning and you’re excited that today you’re going to do something that brings you so much pleasure. And you don’t always do it for some kind of reward.
When I worked at Zagreb in 1989, I didn’t care how much I was paid. I was ready to work 24 hours a day. To learn, to get better. And to this day, even though I’m already 54, I want to keep learning. That’s motivation. You get up and go do what you love to do. You don’t get up thinking, “Oh, I have to go to work again.” If you’re like that, I’m sorry, but I suggest you look elsewhere. You’re doing the wrong thing.
Your path to success has obviously not been easy. And I’m sure you’ve been asked for advice many times. In many interviews you say, “You have to face limitations to be successful.” And I don’t understand that a little bit, how can you grow in “face limitations”?
What I meant by that is this. To grow, you need to face downs and failures. In your regular life or in your profession. You can’t always win. That’s how life works. There are sunny days and there are cloudy days. Good days are followed by bad days. It’s a balance. It’s not always good or always bad. So if you are faced with difficulties, get yourself together and move on.
Challenges are not to be feared. They should be faced. That’s my personal opinion. I have taken great pleasure when I have overcome difficulties in my professional path or in my personal life. It is much more pleasant to taste the fruits of such success. You didn’t get it for nothing, you earned it with hours of work, liters of blood, sweat and tears. That’s life. And I look for those moments.
And yesterday during our conversation Andrey Vatutin said that a year of rest was good for me, because I spent the previous 20 under constant pressure and in a race to win. I answered him that I can’t work properly as a coach if I don’t set the bar high for myself and the team, if the club and the fans don’t expect great success. It all comes in a package for me. Otherwise, everything is not the same.
Back in one of your interviews, you mentioned that you were still missing something along the way….
Is that right? Sometimes I regret that I talk so much (laughs).
So what are you missing? And the next question: what are you more focused on now – on administrative work or should we wait for your soon return to the coaching?
When I say that I lack something, I do not mean my past, but my future. I do not know what exactly I lack, but I will definitely find out. When I see it, I’ll know.
Right now I am very satisfied with what I do. We have good cooperation with the Players’ Union, with the Officials Union. Together with the Head Coaches Baord we’re trying to figure out how we can develop, how we can make the Euroleague a more popular, how we can expand it.
In my current role, I try to help young coaches as well. We have a very interesting project together with the University of Belgrade – the Coaching Academy. We are trying to involve other universities in the program and even expand it to China and Africa. There are coaches there as well. They will have the opportunity to attend training sessions of all our participants and learn from their experience. Before, young coaches have not had the opportunity to learn from the pros.
So I can proudly tell you about it – in June 2024 in Athens, we held an event in which more than 700 coaches took part. Among them were Russians, including Denis Godlevsky, who used to be one of my assistants and now works with Andreas Pistiolis.
With the support of the Greek Ministry of Sports and Tourism, we invited 700 coaches from 54 countries. We have raised the bar high, but we do not plan to lower it. We will increase the number of participants and expand the geography.
Our whole organization, all Euroleague coaches are working on how to expand the influence of the tournament, how to help other coaches. Now we have raised the issue of introducing a minimum salary for coaches of Euroleague and Eurocup teams. We think this approach is fine, a minimum level should be set and then it will be left up to the team owners.
So our three Euroleague organizations are working to make our sport even better.
I didn’t answer the second part of your question, about returning to coaching. My agents and myself have been talking to several teams this summer. It hasn’t worked out yet. I am waiting for a suitable option. When it appears – you will definitely know.
